به گزارش پایگاه خبری دیده بان البرز، علیرضا عباسی، عضو کمیسیون کشاورزی مجلس شورای اسلامی با حضور در استودیوی پخش شبکه رادیویی اقتصاد به عنوان میهمان برنامه «مجله کشاورزی» به سوالاتی در زمینه نظارت بر عرضه مستقیم کالاهای اساسی پاسخ داد که بخشی از این گفت و گو را می خوانیم.
نوروز امسال با ماه مبارک رمضان همزمان شده است و ما در عرضه کالاهای اساسی شاهد یک همت جمعی هستیم. نظر شما در مورد عرضه مستقیم کالاهای اساسی در اسفند ۱۴۰۱ و فروردین ۱۴۰۲ چیست؟ بازار را چگونه ارزیابی کردید؟
عباسی: قبل از پاسخ به این سوال، اجازه دهید به این موضوع مهم به عنوان پیش درآمد ورود به بحث اشاره کنم که یکی از مشکلات اساسی ما در حوزه کشاورزی عدم وجود آمار و ارقام دقیق در حوزه کشاورزی است. تا وقتی اعداد واقعی نداشته باشیم، برنامه‌ریزی درستی هم نمی‌توان در این زمینه انجام داد.
بنابراین در گام اول باید به احصای آمار دقیق بپردازیم. وقتی صحبت از عرضه مستقیم کالا می‌کنیم، این عرضه واقعا باید مستقیم باشد که ما شاهد چنین امری در بازار و نمایشگاه‌های شب عید نیستیم. هنگام قیمت‌گذاری روی محصولات کشاورزی باید به سه مولفه دولت، تولیدکننده و مصرف کننده توجه داشت که هر سه هم سود ببرند و هم از نتیجه فرآیند راضی باشند.
این در حالی است که بین تولیدکننده و مصرف کننده فاصله‌ای وجود دارد که همیشه قیمت‌ها بین این دو حلقه در حال افزایش است. در حال حاضر تولید کننده گلایه دارد که تولید به صرفه نیست، مصرف کننده هم معتقد است که مصرف مقدور نیست.
بعد از اصلاح ارز ترجیحی به شدت مصرف یک سری از کالاها مانند مواد پروتئینی کاهش یافته است. ما از یک سو دغدغه سلامت مردم و حفظ سبد تغذیه جامعه را داریم و از سوی دیگر باید به تولیدکننده و مصرف کننده هم توجه داشته باشیم، بنابراین نیاز است که عرضه مستقیم به صورت واقعی انجام شود به این صورت که دولت ورود و فاصله بین عرضه کننده و مصرف کننده را به هر طریقی که صلاح می‌داند چه با حضور خودش چه با ورود بخش خصوصی پر کند.
با همین هدف بود که از ابتدای انقلاب اسلامی تعاونی های روستایی شکل گرفت تا پلی میان تولید کننده و مصرف کننده ایجاد کند و عرضه کالاها و اجناس به صورت مستقیم انجام شود. بعد از آن تازه می‌توان قیمت را تنظیم و بر آن نظارت کرد.
در بحث میوه شب عید هم تقریباً این اتفاق افتاده اما گلایه ما در حوزه کشاورزی این است که خرید این محصولات با هدف تنظیم بازار میوه شب عید باید مستقیم از تولید کننده انجام شود. امسال پرتقال از تولید کننده چه زمانی و با چه قیمتی خریداری شده که بعد آن را ۱۰ درصد زیر قیمت بازار عرضه کنند؟
دولت زحمت می‌کشد و میوه را ۱۰ درصد هم زیر قیمت روز بازار عرضه می‌کند اما نه برای خودش منفعتی دارد و نه برای تولیدکننده به صرفه است و نه رضایت مصرف کننده را به همراه دارد. این جزو ایراداتی است که بارها در جلسات متعدد کمیسیون کشاورزی مطرح کردیم که اگر قرار است اتفاقی بیفتد که همه سود ببرند باید به اصلاح سبک بپرداریم.
چرا نتوانستیم این سیستم را اصلاح کنیم؟ چرا نمی‌توانیم نظام توزیع را کنترل و مدیریت کنیم؟
عباسی: طبق اصل ۴۴ قانون اساسی اقتصاد در کشور ما سه گونه است؛ اقتصاد دولتی، خصوصی یا تعاونی. اگر به سمت اقتصاد دولتی برویم مطمئناً نمی‌توانیم به هدف مورد نظر برسیم. اگر مردم پای کار نباشند، قطعا از عهده مشکلات و چالش‌های اقتصاد بر نمی آییم.
توجه صِرف به بخش خصوصی هم ممکن است برای ما خسارت ایجاد کند ولی اگر همان گونه که در قانون و در برنامه ششم توسعه آمده، اقتصاد را تعاونی کنیم و ۲۵ درصد اقتصاد باید تعاونی باشد، به نتیجه مطلوب خواهیم رسید.
در روستاها یک شبکه مویرگی بسیار خوب به نام تعاونی روستایی داشتیم که حتی کود و سم را توزیع می‌کردند؛ اگر قوانین را به درستی اجرا کنیم قطعا می‌توانیم بر بخش عظیمی از مشکلات فائق شویم. دولت هم باید به عنوان یک ناظر کار خود را انجام دهد. دولت نمی‌تواند پیمانکار باشد؛ دولت در جاهایی پا را فراتر گذاشته و به عنوان پیمانکار عمل کرده است.
امسال در بحث میوه شب عید علیرغم ایرادات بسیاری که وجود دارد کار خوبی می توانست اتفاق بیفتد و آن این است که دولت، بخش خصوصی و تعاونی‌ها را درگیر کرده، اما با بی دقتی ها و بی توجهی ها وزنه ایرادات سنگین تر شد و مشکلاتی به بار آورده که در حال نمایان شدن است.
این در حالی است که سال‌های قبل با ورود صِرف دولت هر سه مولفه تولیدکننده، مصرف کننده و دولت متضرر می‌شدند، اما امسال فقط دولت بود که ضرر نکرد ولی تولید کننده و مصرف کننده متضرر شدند.
نظارت بر قانون وظیفه مجلس هم هست و همیشه گفته شده که در مجلس قوانین مترقی تصویب می‌شود اما بُعد نظارتی مجلس هم مثل قوانینش قوی نیست! ما شاهد ضعف‌هایی در اجرا هستیم که امیدواریم رفع شود. همان گونه که فرمودید، جلسات متعددی با وزارت جهاد کشاورزی داشتید و راهکار هم ارائه کرده‌اید اما در عمل شاهد نتیجه مثبتی در این موضوع نیستیم که نشان می‌دهد این نظارت صحیح نیست. نظر شما در این مورد چیست؟
عباسی: وزارت جهاد کشاورزی و کمیسیون کشاورزی مجلس بسیار تخصصی است. ما به عنوان نماینده مجلس بر عملکرد وزیر مربوطه نظارت داریم، طرح سوال می‌کنیم، تذکر می‌دهیم و حتی لازم باشد استیضاح می کنیم. اما وقتی یک وزارتخانه تخصصی طی چهار سال چهار وزیر عوض می‌کند، بیانگر عدم ثبات مدیریت در مجموعه است.
با تغییر هر وزیری هم باید فرصتی به وزیر جدید داده شود تا شاهد عملکرد وی باشیم. متاسفانه در سال‌های اخیر شاهد تغییر و تحولات زیادی در مدیریت وزارت جهاد کشاورزی بودیم. در بحث نظارت بر میوه شب عید، سال گذشته با رصد، بازرسی و نظارت شبانه‌روزی، هم شاهد اصلاح قیمت‌ها بودیم و هم تغییر یک سری شاخص‌ها که منجر شد محصولِ با کیفیت‌تری به دست شهروندان برسد.
ما معتقد به حمایت از تولیدکننده هستیم اما نباید این حمایت به گونه‌ای باشد که تولید کننده تمام هزینه‌اش را به گردن مصرف کننده بیندازد. عملکرد ما در بعضی از محصولات عملکرد مناسبی نیست. باید با افزایش بهره‌وری بستری را فراهم کنیم که محصول با قیمت مناسب‌تری به دست مصرف کننده برسد.
فاصله قیمتی بین تولید کننده و مصرف کننده بسیار زیاد و حتی گاهی دو یا سه برابر است. این امر به دلیل حضور واسطه‌هایی هست که هیچ کاری انجام نمی دهند و بیشترین سود را می‌برند. به اعتقاد بنده دولت و تعاونی‌ها می‌توانند این فاصله را پر کنند، در اقتصاد مقاومتی نیر به حضور مردم و تعاونی‌ها بسیار تاکید شده است.
همه مردم نمی‌توانند تولید کننده باشند اما می‌توانند در تعاونی‌ها شرکت کنند و به عنوان افراد موثر در چرخه انتقال محصول از تولیدکننده به مصرف کننده ایفای نقش کنند. باید از حضور مردم در این زمینه بهره‌مند شویم تا اگر سودی هم هست، یک مجموعه تعاونی از این سود بهره‌مند شوند نه یک نفر.
در حوزه گوشت قرمز و سفید یک مشکل اساسی داریم و آن هم اینکه آمار درستی از مقدار گوشت نداریم. چندین بار این موضوع را به وزیر جهاد کشاورزی منتقل کردیم که آمار در حوزه کشاورزی باید به صورت کلی احصا و به‌روز رسانی شود.
در نبود آمار درست تنها واسطه‌گران، بیشترین سود را می‌برند چون نه عشایر ما اختیار صادرات و نه شهروندان معمولی قدرت واردات گوشت را دارند. ما به صورت میدانی از نحوه توزیع گوشت بازدید کردیم و حتی با ورود ما بعضی جاها اصلاح شد اما قبول داریم که این نظارت باید بیشتر شود. جاهایی جواب گرفتیم ولی جاهایی هم به دلیل مقاومت‌هایی که وجود داشت، جواب نگرفتیم.
منطق ما در تصویب قانون انتزاع، این بود که وزارت جهاد کشاورزی بر صفر تاصد زنجیره توزیع، نظارت کند. انتظار ما این است که وزارت جهاد کشاورزی کامل و دقیق این کار را انجام دهد ولی امروز به این نتیجه رسیدیم که در برخی مواقع، وزارت جهاد کشاورزی نمی‌خواهد یا نمی‌تواند این کار را انجام دهد که این امر باید اصلاح شود.
به دنبال این موضوع هستیم و جلساتی هم راجع به این قضیه با مجموعه‌های مختلف برگزار کردیم چون افرادی هستند که مطمئناً جلوی اصلاحات را می‌گیرند و فشارهایی را هم ممکن است وارد کنند. وزارت جهاد کشاورزی وزارتخانه‌ای تخصصی است لذا باید یک آدم متخصص آشنا به وزارتخانه از صفر تا صد روی کار بیاید اما این کاستی را از همان اول دیدیم و هنوز هم وجود دارد.
موارد زیرساختی را مطرح کردیم که برای اصلاح بخش کشاورزی و اصلاح نظام توزیع باید این اتفاق رقم بخورد و آمار به درستی اعلام شود.
تا امروز نظارت‌های میدانی را چگونه می‌بینید؟ مردم معتقدند نظارتی نیست! نظر شما چیست؟
عباسی: سرجمع نظارت‌هایی انجام می‌شود ولی کافی نیست. ما در قانون انتزاع و سپردن تنظیم بازار به وزارت جهاد کشاورزی، یک معاونت بازرگانی در وزارت جهاد کشاورزی ایجاد کردیم ولی این معاونت به نیروهای متخصص در حوزه نظارت نیاز دارد اما نه زیرساخت لازم را به آن ها دادیم و نه نیروی انسانی مناسب را و آن تعداد افرادی که از وزارت صمت به حوزه کشاورزی آمدند هم برگشتند؛ تأمین نیروی آن ها وظیفه ما نیست و باید این کاستی برطرف شود.
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